Longtime rivals, Fawaz and his new company, Origna8, partner with Ishbia and UWM
Many industries have large companies that find themselves on opposite sides of the fence, with leaders of those organizations unlikely to ever see eye to eye on how business is done.
As everyone knows, in the mortgage world, those two companies are United Wholesale Mortgage (UWM) and Rocket Mortgage. The two have gone back and forth over many years, each battling for market share at the top of the mortgage industry.
With a rivalry so fierce, it seemed unlikely that the executives of one company would consider partnering with the other. However, that very thing happened this week.
Mike Fawaz (pictured top right), who announced two months ago that he was leaving Rocket Pro after 15 years with the company, announced his new venture this week called Origna8.
He also made two other big announcements: he was bringing in another former Rocket Pro exec, Dan Sogorka, to be the CEO, and he would be partnering with Mat Ishbia (pictured top left) and UWM from day one.
Fawaz said he felt it was time to build a company that could be a community for mortgage brokers.
“Spending years listening to brokers, having conversations, understanding the needs of loan officers, the answer was simple: I needed to create a community,” Fawaz told Mortgage Professional America. “It’s more than just tech. It’s more than just mortgage. It’s about one vision and belief in what we’re building and really helping each other grow transparency and really partnering up with the right folks.”
“Whether it’s on the lender side or the vendor side, or even bringing the right loan officers or brokers in to help us all grow together. So Origna8 to me is more than just a company. It’s a community that’s going to be working hand in hand with every broker and loan officer who wants to be part of it.”
Calling up a former adversary
Ishbia said he was impressed that someone whom he had competed tooth and nail against for years would be willing to reach out to find out if UWM was the right partner for his new venture.
“His number one focus is how to make his own thing successful?” Ishbia told Mortgage Professional America. “And he has to look at his adversary, Mat and UWM, and at least vet it. And when he vetted it, I think he made the decision, ‘Now I get it. I see some things you’re doing, and this will help me build my business bigger and stronger. And so I’m going to join and be a broker and partner of yours.’
“I give a lot of respect and credit because I always question, am I enough of a man and an adult and grown up to have an ego to say, ‘Okay, I could have been wrong.’”
Ishbia said once he and Fawaz discussed this new venture and potentially partnering, he found that he and his former rival had a lot of things in common.
“When he met with me, it wasn’t like, ‘I’m coming to work with UWM.’ It was, ‘What do you guys do? Tell me about it,’” Ishbia said. “And we sat and talked business. We talked belief system values. And what we found was, even though we were adversaries for a long time, we’re very similar and have a lot of things that we agree on and believe in.
“And the one thing I loved about him was that he loves brokers, and he thinks that UWM is the best place for him to build his business and grow. And we’re excited to partner with him and help him be successful, just like we do with all of our partners. He’s special, though, because I think he’s going to be really based on his experience, his care factor, and his work ethic.”
For Fawaz, it was a matter of stepping back and assessing the landscape of the mortgage industry. Part of that assessment was speaking with someone he had battled.
“When I made the decision to leave, I had to take a step back,” Fawaz said. “It was only fair that I took a look at the other side because we competed. I never got to know Mat on a personal level or understand his belief or his vision, but all it took was one lunch. I was so happy that I did, because it was very clear that he’s the right partner for us.
“What he’s building is the right platform for us, and it made it very simple. People are like, ‘Wow, after all these years, he’s partnered with Mat?’ Look, it’s okay to have a change of heart if you see things for what they are. And when I did, I had a change of heart, and I’m excited that I did that, and I’m excited for what’s going to happen next.”
What this means for brokers
Fawaz said it made sense for him to bring Dan Sogorka in as CEO based on getting to know him during their time with Rocket Pro.
“I’ve gotten to know Dan for the last 15, 16 months while he was at Rocket, and I can tell you I was very impressed from day one,” Fawaz said. “He’s really, really good at building relationships as well and really thinking about the digital world and the tech world. But he also believes in the broker community. He does believe in what we’re trying to do, and that’s important to me. Dan is going to do great things for us.”
For any brokers who want to know more about Origna8, Fawaz encouraged them to reach out to him through his company’s website. He said he hopes to help brokers who may be overwhelmed with the complexities of the backend of mortgage lending.
“If you’re a broker and you’re waking up every single morning trying to figure out where to go to, how to run your business and figure out the ins and outs of leads and tech and tech stack and dialers and systems and all of this and also deal with compliance and licensing and all that, please pick up the phone and call me directly,” he said. “Reach out to me. I’ll be more than happy to help you.
“But whether you join the community or not, I’m committed to helping people. I would love for you to join the community, but if you’re not going to join it, I still want to help you and try to make sure that we’re giving you the value and the support that you need.”
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